Saturday, January 16, 2010

Next topic?

Well that was fun,
what shall we all debate now???


A Beautiful Mess said... are one funny girl.

Got a new post up too. Just keepin' it real:)

Lacie said...

HA! Love it! I need to introduce myself. I have been following along here for quite some time. I absolutely love your outlook on things, the way you handle the Snowbirds with grace, how it seems that you are an amazing mom and wife, and I am just in awe of your beautiful family. Frankly, I wish we were neighbors because I would LOVE to live near thew water and in warmth! It's so cold here in the northeast!

Come on over and check me out!

Wanda said...

Ha ha....good one!

Briana's Mom said...

Ok - Louis Vuitton verses Versace. Go...


t~ said...

I think y'all know what I'm going say for that one...I'm a Louis gal:). Funny though Lisa!

Jacquie said...

Been reading all through the "debates." T- you are awesome.

nerdgirl said...

Well, it was interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject...

InMySeoul said...

How about Blog etiquette?

For example:

1. Don't publish an article with a quote from another blog without linking the original source (Or providing adequate information so other readers can find the original source). First of all, its plagiarism. Second, it turns all of your commentors into ignorant commentors because they can't read the full version. Third, it allows you to skew everything to your favor by taking things out of context.

2. Don't "steal" a discussion away from the original author. Its rude to post "I wrote a response on my blog page". It is rude because you're "stealing" the original author's discussion and readers. Now they have to come to your blog and comment on your blog to keep up with the discussion. You've broken the whole discussion chain...which is probably one of the most important features of blogs.

3. Its outright cowardly to do both #1 and 2 to get the discussion in your "safe domain" in order to trash the comments or the author. If you are too uncomfortable to post a reply comment, then don't move the debate/argument to your own blog, so you can have all of your blog friends help you gang pile the discussion with their non-logical, name calling, and ignorant comments.(as in uninformed of the full original article)

Debbie said...

You are too funny!!!

Anonymous said...

To InMySeoul
I can't believe your words can sound so hateful. Why would you care if this person uses Birth mother, China Mom or watever. You seem to think Birth Mother isn't the proper phrase to use, but when going to your blog I scrolled down to a Being Grateful post & you, yourself, wrote 1. I am grateful that my birth mother gave birth to me (the alternative is so much worse!)"

So Birth Mother is only stating a fact. This family has 3 other children who call her mommy. This little girl is only 18months old and only learning to talk so she will naturally copy whatever her brothers use. They are a beautiful family who love all 4 children and only want her to fit in and feel the same love as the 3 boys. She's to young to understand 2 mommys so in order to talk about her roots, she was only using birth mother to represent another person------Just like you did in your greatful post.

Lighten up! She was trying to change the mood on "HER" blog but you just had to get in one last word. SHAME ON YOU!!!

I have an idea-----move on and leave this woman alone. I've reread her post and she never said anything to deserve all this hatefulness.

By the way, it is her blog.


t~ said...

goodgollyjeepers InMySeoul, funny that you would bring up the word etiquette....
The beginning of this whole discussion was when you came to MY BLOG and posted this comment.. said...
"wow...I can't believe there are so many voices in agreement. I read through the comments section fairly quickly, but I don't think I saw a single dissenting comment...."

January 13, 2010 2:00 AM
It was then that you followed it up with another comment on Diane's blog: " said...

Hey Diane!
I've finally gotten around to reading the post and even left a comment on "Just my 2 cents on adoption"...I was so worked up that here I am at 1 AM on a work day writing this! I tried to remain civil in the other blogs, but here I will vent! LOL

Who gives these women the right to tell their adopted children that they are the only person to be called "Mom"???? Who made them God and and Webster to decide to change the definition all of sudden? IF anything, the birth mother should keep her title of "Mom" and the AP should be the non-"Mommy" word...whatever they use...

OHH..I am still fuming mad. These woman justify their selfishness behind the arguments that they are trying to protect their children to try to minimize the pain and suffering... What they are doing is feeding their own psychological need/hunger to be accepted as the adopted child's mother.

My reason for creating my own post was because I WAS the original poster and Diane pulled 1 line out of my post to place in hers that wasn't even talking about the same topic. Kind of like the political commercials where you see the politician say one thing and you know it was taken out of context.
After it was all said and done: (& to be fair)...Diane left this comment: ".....You have clarified that you were specifically referring to the term ‘Mommmy” which was not initially clear. Most definitely it was not clear to a few of your commenters who interpreted your thoughts as I did- the nod of acceptance in the justified refusal to ever acknowledge another Mother...“I agree with you and would never think of saying our daughter has two mothers - she only has one. And one father also.”
January 15, 2010 12:24 AM

The reason it wasn't INITIALLY clear was because the post was NOT about that.

p.s. I'm completely well with Diane and read her post for what it was. It was your comment that was out of line.

*Cowardly? LOL!

*Plagiarism? Kind of like your friend Mei Ling who has copied the entire conversation to her blog without linkage? I didn't see you complain to her.

*Skew everything to my favor? Seriously? Your words are your words. I didn't skew shit and NOTHING was taken out of context. Go reread it for yourself, I've copied most of it for you above in case you didn't follow along real closely the first time. But if you feel it didn't highlight the best of you, then look in the mirror.

*Steal? ...Like robbery? Really? Well that's just silly middle school talk now.

*I broke the discussion chain?
Hate to tell you, you did when you carried yourself elsewhere and made the ridiculous statement that you did.

*Uncomfortable? yeah that's me...

*As far as the non-logical, name calling, ignorant comments that you didn't agree with is something you can take up with those that left them. Most were new to me and I am not one to pass along other people's thoughts.

*gang pile? You're funny.

I thought you added some zest, thought provoking ideas to the last post. Even though I didn't agree with you, you made me think.
Now you're just being a jackass.

Mei Ling said...

"Kind of like your friend Mei Ling who has copied the entire conversation to her blog without linkage?"

You mean you wanted *more* heating comments?

I didn't link you because some of the readers who visit my website are first/birth mothers and likely would have come to your site and started commenting on triggering comments. And sometimes their anger - although justified - ends up blocking out the very message they are trying to convey.

Likewise, the dialogue about "birth mother" would have triggered their anger and then things would have just escalated to a matter of labeling. I did not want to see that happen if I were to link you.

It was not an attempt at "hiding" dialogue from you.

My apologies.

t~ said...

No apologies needed Mei Ling, I was just proving a point to InMySeoul that he so wrecklessly took up with me and didn't with you. Afterall, he made it a point to place it in his #1 position of bad blog etiquette.

InMySeoul said...

I am now going to clarify this for the 3rd TIME!! (My first comment to "Why we don't call her Mommy", the one you deleted, and now). So hopefully this time you will actually read it instead of deleting it. My comments in Diane's blog were in regard to using words such as "China Lady" to describe an adopted child's birth mother.

You must be telepathic because this is the 2nd time you have told me what my frame of mind was when I was writing.

Please stop telling me who I was writing about, and for the second time I will tell you...I was writing about any random AP that decided they will not refer to their child's birth mother with any sort of paternal respect at all! Yes, at first, this did include you because your first article "Just my 2 Cents on adoption, try to be nice...." you never told the audience what you called Eme's birth mother in front of your her.. While it may seem obvious to you, it was not obvious to the entire audience. Then you finally did clear this up in the second article in which you quote me out of context and determined that I obviously had issues to deal with...and that I was spewing with anger.

Instead of really reading my comments you and your audience were so emotional stirred up because I dared to disagree and to tell you what to do or not to do and my anger and disrespect, that none of you could see all of the clarifications I have been trying to make. I think if you go back through all of the comments, you will realize that I never told anyone how to parent, I made alternative options/suggestions and did ask questions to stir your thoughts, but I never said I was right or your doing it wrong...Lastly, I would like to specifically point out that I was never disrespectful to anyone. (Unless you count pointing out to someone else who called me "stupid" and "talking out of my ..." are an improper way to form an argument.), but in fact it was all of your "supporters" who were using disrespectful words such as "stupid" and "kooky".

Apparently I am not totally delusional about my and Mei-Ling's intentions and the hostile environment because a total stranger "Elizabeth", notices the same thing.

Two very distinct differences between your post called "Why we don't call her Mommy" and Mei-Ling's:
1. She doesn't reference any names
2. She then doesn't use a "snipet" of a quote out of context to flame someone in a post/article.

Steffie B. said...

OMG......I'm just going to refrain from saying too much here....what an idiot...... that seems to have many self esteem and life problems....very pathetic indeed.....just PATHETIC!

So sorry T that you seem to have a wierdo stalking your blog!

Pug Mama said...

oh, oh, oh, ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I know what we can all debate now -
How about how we all discipline our children??????
can we? can we? please, please, PLEAZZZZZZZZZZZZZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or how about how InMySeoul should really stop coming to our blog since you are obviously such a rude, plagiarism practicing, cowardly, thief. Can we debate that one too??? Can we? Can we? Please, please, pleazzzzzzzzzzze!!!!!

t~ said...

Gracious, do you sleep? Lol?

Ok, it's Sunday morning, all is well. I harbor no ill feelings, I told you that you added zest and thought provoking ideas, but for some reason, that's not enough. Now you want to replay the whole situation out again in slow motion.

*If you were not speaking about me, then you probably shouldn't have used the term, 'these women' (plural)immediately after stating how worked up you were over at Just my 2 cents. So if you feel I took your words out of context, I apologize. The only reason their was a 2nd topic was because the first topic was not about that and my words had been taken out of context and I felt the need to expand on the topic since it had changed right out from under me. Are we all good? Good.

1. Mei Ling doesn't use any names, she refers to me as,"One of the adoptive parent blogs I went to* states..."
2. The whole post is snipets.
Nobody is being flamed here or there. I have no problem with her post.

Finally, as I said before..."You will find this blog to be very tolerable and very open to every opinion that posts here, rather I agree or not, and that is why I do not moderate comments."

I have responded to each one of your comments that were meant for me. I do not agree with all the commenters and I certainly wouldn't call them, 'my audience'

I believe your intentions were to be nothing but thought provoking and of a different perspective. How everyone else perceived your words is not up to me. Clear as mud?

Jacquie said...

Whatever happened to the blog ettiquette that went something like this...... if you don't like what someone is saying on someone's PERSONAL blog then don't read anymore! This is T's PERSONAL blog. If you don't like what she believes and don't like that most of her readers feel the same way she does, then leave! Don't read anymore! I'm continually amazed by people who have made it their mission and responsibility in life to educate others via someone's PERSONAL blog. This kind of rudeness and jackassiness drives me ape$*!t!!! Holy mother.

Campbell said...

If an adoption blog writer or reader is ever going to pause and think for a minute about what someone has to say it really should be an adoptee's point of view.

Both Mei Ling and InMySeoul are adoptees. What they and the rest of us adoptees say should be of great interest to adoptive parents and biological/birth/first mothers. How could it not be when both sides claim to have the best interests of adopted children at heart? I don't feel the way they feel about adoption but as an adoptee and mom I certainly respect what they have to say and have empathy for how they've been affected by adoption. More so for them than any of the other parties involved.

It seems to me that this poster, "t", is getting something from what they're trying to say. It's unfortunate that the whole discussion comes across as hostile, with the blame for that lying on the shoulders of all concerned.

I think the point here was simply to suggest that an adoptive parent really needs to find a way to ensure their adopted child knows that another mother gave birth to them. That they didn't come from their mommy's tummy.

As an adoptee I'm telling you that it's best they know from their parent(s). As a mom I'm acknowledging that in most cases it's you, adoptive parent, that should know the best way to go about making this happen. If you do need any suggestions or ideas there's obviously tons of us around who are ready willing and able to share our opinions and thoughts.

Thanks for your time, I just wanted to make sure this wasn't lost in the discussion as it's so very important.

Wendy said...

Interesting conversations. Thanks for stepping into the middle of the 'adoption blogger wars' to share your opinions. I believe everyone should be heard. Why should our voices as AP's be squelched?

Mei Ling said...

"Why should our voices as AP's be squelched?"

They aren't. They already dominate many of the adoption conversations.

Debra said...

I love to blog and look forward to getting my computer fixed so that I can blog again soon. I use my blog as a space to chronicle my children and our lives together. It is fun and relaxing. I started reading blogs many years ago when I was working on getting to my first daughter. They were like a lifeline for me. So much information about health, travel, guides, etc. I'm so glad to have had the opportunity to read so much information. It was extremely beneficial to my journey. Now, I visit blogs to watch the beautiful children grow and flurish. I still get beneficial information and would never feel wierd about asking "did this happen with your child" or "I'm worried about this" to another least one that I have been reading or actually know in person. It is a wonderful support system for all of us. Many times viewpoints are not what I believe at all, but I leave it at that. I don't feel the need to comment. Not everyone is going to agree with me always, nor do I agree always with others. It is futile to try to "change" someone else's mind to think as I do, nor do I want to. How boring would that be? Sillyness, just not worth such effort. All of us come from different homes and our perspectives are all different because of being individuals and our personal life journys. My thought is why bring baggage and anger everywhere? Chinese adoption is very different from past Korean, (no chance of birth family connection), or domestic, (no way of ever knowing birth mother/father etc). The people having such a hard time here are coming from such different perspectives. Perhaps a little kindness, respect and tolerance is in order not only for you, but from you. I don't know "T" at all except for following her blog. I like a lot of what she posts but I don't agree with everything - just as is with every blog I follow. Peace guys,

osolomama said...

lacking self-esteem
screwed up
jack ass

I don't know about you, but I find that kind of depressing.

Colleen said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
elizabeth said...

I do think it's good that people have pointed out that this is a personal blog, not a discussion forum and I say props to T for both raising the issue and for allowing discussion. I know I personally have learned from the different viewpoints expressed.

That said, it doesn't make sense to me why people say "get a life and don't read this blog if you don't agree with it" because one could argue that if someone is taking time out of their day to tell someone else to get a life, they in turn should get a life.

I'm not saying we should or should not perpetuate this discussion/debate, but my sense is that everyone just wants to be heard, understood, and have their views respected and words like those posted by osolomama (drawn from other comments) don't allow for that. I don't know what makes people think it's okay to "speak" to others like that. If someone found what InMySeoul or Mei Ling said to be offensive, why stoop to that level by insulting them? For the record, I don't think what they said was offensive, I'm just saying theoretically.

Perhaps people need to agree to disagree...?

Kris said...

i second Campbell and Elizabeth.

if only all of us could just... what?... let our guard down a little, open our hearts and minds... gain from each other.

i keep saying it- there is so much potential. and while i agree we absolutely as APs need to be listening (intently) to the adult adoptee (the broad spectrum of them, because wow is it broad)- communication is a 2 way street.

we need to be listening to EACH OTHER. there are gains to be had from every perspective, whether you agree or not. and when we (whether APs or adoptees) are misguided in our thinking, why not respectfully show your point of view to counter that misconception? and agree to disagree?

and just at the very least.. be KIND?

i do commend T on opening this up for discussion. as O Solo Mama said, how unfortunate some of you resorted to elementary school name calling. what purpose does that serve?

InMySeoul said...

"I think the point here was simply to suggest that an adoptive parent really needs to find a way to ensure their adopted child knows that another mother gave birth to them. That they didn't come from their mommy's tummy."

Thank you Campbell for putting exactly what I was trying to say in hopefully a more clear way.

I was not trying to anger you or tell you how to do things, and I'm sorry if you thought I was. Admittedly, I was upset with the article "Why we don't call her Mommy." because it does quote me and then infers my state/frame of mind (which was misunderstood), then judges me as an "angry adoptee" or the "speaker" for all adoptees. I was also getting frustrated at having to repeat myself several times all the while having to wade through the rude comments while being told that I was being disrespectful and rude (which I was quite confused about).

Yes, I was posting at all hours of the night because that was how important I thought the topic was, and I didn't want to be mis-understood.

I have a full time job that I travel for all the time. I work 70+ hours a week, so sometimes the only time I have to read blogs and comment are at 1 or 2 (or even later) in the morning. While it is both physically and emotionally tiring, I figure it is worth it. I don't blog or comment for APs' sake. I blog for the sake of other adoptees. To help AP's (such as yourself) who want to learn more about the whole topic can have just 1 other adoptee viewpoint so you can make the best decisions for your child. I'm not a matyr or a speaker for the masses. Ironically, I am actually from the "happy adoptee" camp. I am pro-adoption, and I see many benefits.

I hope we can have many more discussions/debates in the future. I try my best to be respectful in the blog world (which is probably why I was so upset being labelled), because even my blog reputation is important to me. If I post something that you find offensive, please let me know directly so we can clear up if there are any misunderstandings.